Talk:Demon Supreme Kai
Towa is a Ma Kaioh Shin, not Dabra. The Ma Kaioh Shins are Shinians (shinjins) beings of the same race as the Kaioh Shins. Dabra is a Demon King, not a God. Is a normal Demon. And Towa are Potala earrings in their ears, like the Kaioh Shins, and his skin is a color similar to the Kaioh Shins, and his hair too. Towa isn´t a Demon, is a Shinian, is a Ma Kaioh Shin. Dabra, Lucifer, Shura and Mera are demons, not Ma Kaioh Shins. They don´t have the title of gods. The Ma Kaioh Shins are Shinjins, not demons. Surely there are Ma Kaioh Shin and Ma Kaioh. Five of each, as they occur with the Kaioh Shins and Kaiohs. One for each cardinal point of the galaxy from the world of demons and one is the boss of others. The term "Ma Kaioh Shin" was created, probably, for use in the video-game DB Online. Lucifer Ma Kaioh Shin? It doesn´t refer to the same kind of Ma Kaioh Shins. When Lucifer was created the Kaioh Shins didn´t exist, nor the race of shinians. When Daizenshuu appeared there was no term "shinians." In LucIfer the term refers to some kind of demon king, as Dabra. But the Ma Kaioh Shin aren´t demons, are shinians, a race of gods. The Ma Kaioh Shins are gods, gods in the devil world. The Ma Kaioh Shins are gods, gods are born with evil in their hearts, and were sent into the world of demons to perform there as gods. Look this guide (by Herms), in the part about Dabra and Ma Kaioh Shins: http://www.kanzentai.com/mini_db.php?id=demon ( 18:40, July 16, 2011 (UTC)) :Lucifer is a Makaioshin according to Daizenshuu 7, which is official. Kazentai is a fan site. 20:05, July 16, 2011 (UTC) Go back to look at the title given to Lucifer. I've looked at the Daizenshuu 7 and the title for Lucifer given is "Demon King", not Ma Kaioh Shin...In Japan there are many anagrams to express a word, this can cause confusion to be different interpretations. But what is clear is that Toriyama invented the term Ma Kaioh and Ma Kaioh Shin in Super Exciting Guide, and he doesn´t pipe anything to do with the creation of Lucifer, and I don´t think of it as a shinjin, much less thought it would be a Ma Kaioh Shin. Just Lucifer is a king of a race of demons called majins (demon gods), but have nothing to do with the race of Kaioh and Kaioh Shins. I´m sure that sooner or later this will become clear in the video-game DBO. And Kanzentai is a website, but Herms is an expert in Japanese and all the data shown are official. Sorry for my bad english, I´m spanish XD ( 19:22, July 17, 2011 (UTC)) :Sorry, but we have to go with the official sources. I fully support conversations and (expert) fan opinions, but their not encyclopedic. 01:21, July 18, 2011 (UTC) ::You might be right for Lucifer. But also, it wouldn't have been the first that a same name is spelled differently in the series. And I think "Makaioshins" and the ball structure of the DB universe was introduced in Daizenshuu 6 before being in the "Super Exciting Guides". Jeangabin666 08:30, July 18, 2011 (UTC) HECTOR4 I have the Daizenshuu 7 in French and Lucifer don´t call "Ma Kaioh Shin", if Demon King. I would look that says exactly the Japanese edition ... if you could be someone to explain the translation. We could find out. And I have not seen that volume 6 will talk about the Ma Kaioh Shins...The globe of the universe if it appears (to appear in the animated series),this is something different ... But the information of Ma Kaioh an Ma Kaioh Shin is something Toriyama (anyone else) invented in the Super Exciting Guide. If not I want to see the page of Volume 6 where it talks about the Ma Kaioh Shins. Someone can upload?( 13:10, July 19, 2011 (UTC)) HECTOR4 See this post in Daizex: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17740 That shows that mistranslated the term to Lucifer. The term in Daizenshuu 7 for Lucifer is Maou, not Makaioshin. Herms explanation: "It's BS. Daizenshuu 7 doesn't say anything like that, and the Super Exciting Guide: Character Volume is the first place the term "Makaioshin" appears, like you thought. Let's see...conveniently (I guess) they were nice enough to specify an actual part of Daizenshuu 7 that says this, his Human Racial Dictionary bio. I've already translated that for Kanzentai: 'Quote:'Lucifer Demon King History: A demon king who plotted to destroy the sun and turn this world into one of darkness. He kidnapped Bulma and tried to make her into a sacrifice. He appeared in "The Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle". Characteristics: He has the "The Sleeping Princess" gem, which is needed to operate a giant, sun-destroying cannon. At first he had a gentlemanly calm appearance and manner, but when he shows his true colors his face becomes terrifying. He tried to make a toast with Bulma's lifeblood. Techniques: He fires energy balls from both hands. Battles: He battled Goku when he came to save Bulma. In the end, he died when the Kamehameha Goku fired made the sun-destroying cannon explode, taking him with it. (Daizenshuu 6, p.24) So yeah, nothing about him being a Makaioshin. Nears as I can tell, some halfwit must have mistaken the generic title "Demon King" (maou) for "Makaioushin" (Demon Realm King God)." Topic clear.( 12:04, August 3, 2011 (UTC)) :It says demon king. Perhaps you should stick with primary sources rather than fan forums like Daizex, they tend to not know what they're talking about. 18:37, August 5, 2011 (UTC) :The term used for Lucifer is not "Maou", it's 魔神, which means "demon deity/god". You might be right for Lucifer, but ask Herms to use the original Japanese version, not his own personal translation. Lucifer is at least stated to be a deity who rules over demons. Jeangabin666 18:46, August 5, 2011 (UTC) This reminds me of the Super Namek issue. 20:01, August 5, 2011 (UTC) This: 魔神 means Majin (demon person). Not demon god/deity ( 10:35, August 8, 2011 (UTC)) HECTOR4 Oh, sorry, that has sent the last message was me. I forgot to put my nickname. ( 10:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)) HECTOR4 More clarifications from Daizex people who translated things directly from Daizenshuu 7: Bussani: Maou is a title, not a race. He's a majin (魔神) who is maou. Adamant: The term used for Lucifer IS 魔王. The only place in that biography "魔神" appears is as part of the movie title 魔神城のねむり姫. Herms: Anyway, Adamant already covered this, but Lucifer's bio only uses the term majin as part of the movie title. So for one thing, citing Daizenshuu 7 in irrelevant and misleading, since the book contains no further information on the subject besides what's already given in the movie itself and its title. Second off, if we assume Lucifer is a majin because he lives in Majin Castle, by the same token Ghastel, Lucifer's butler, and all the other guys who live there would also be majin. Are we supposed to assume that they're all Makaioshin too? But finally, the assumption that being a majin means someone is probably a Makaioshin is breathtakingly absurd. "Majin" is a general term that pops up in lots of manga, anime, and video games. "Makaioshin" is a word Toriyama invented that only appears in DB Super Exciting Guide. Majin are gods who cause disaster, or powerful demons (not gods who rule over demons). Makaioshin are gods who rule over the lower gods which rule the Demon World. Bit of a difference, all in all. The idea that the villain from a what-if movie outside regular continuity that has never been followed up on, and which came out years before the idea of Kaios first appeared in the manga and over two decades before Toriyama introduced the concept of Makaios or Makaioshins, must "probably" be a Makaioshin because the title of the movie refers to the place where he lives with a generic term that happens to contain two of the four kanji which make up "Makaioshin" is...illogical. To say the least. The fact that these people can't work that out on their own is considerably discouraging.( 10:49, August 8, 2011 (UTC)) :魔人 means Majin (demon person), 魔神 is more Mashin (demon deity). Jeangabin666 10:51, August 8, 2011 (UTC) HECTOR4 Even if this were the case, is the name of a entire race. It has nothing to do with the Makaio or the Makaioshin or the Shinjins, invented by Toriyama. In the Daizenshuu never says: Lucifer is a Makaioshin. This is false. ( 10:56, August 8, 2011 (UTC)) :I agree. Lucifer, Dabura, Shula and Towa are not Makaishin. However Toei gave the name of a "real life" deity to Lucifer. And let me remind that DB guides are more filler than fillers. Also asks people from Daizex to be more respectful with others, we're in not a war.. we're both Dragon Ball fans and helping each other clearing things related to the series is normal, that's what we call working together. Thank you for your help HECTOR4 ;D Jeangabin666 11:03, August 8, 2011 (UTC) HECTOR4 You're welcome. I love your work on this Wiki, really. So I saw that mistake and wanted to help you. But there was no war. Just asked for help to the people of Daizex to clarify the terms, nothing more. So thanks to both parts (Daizex and Wiki) clarifies a lot better. It´s what is called teamwork. And Dragon Ball Guides are information added to the original work and are valid, and more if they are words of the creator of the serie. Toriyama's word is as filler such as the manga, and more valid than the animated series and Toei. It would be nice to change the term within the Wiki, not to create confusion. And explain that Lucifer isn´t Makaioshin, but it Toei put the title of "demon god" to his race, with nothing to do with the Makaioshins nor the Makaios. And I think that eventually the game Dragon Ball Online will end up revealing that Towa is a Makaioshin. Surely, but for now it´s not, clear..( 11:29, August 8, 2011 (UTC))